MK Ofer Cassif at a protest in 2021. Pic: Shay Kendler/Creative Commons

Assaf Talgam: We are speaking as the war of annihilation in Gaza has been going on for almost two years. What should Israelis who oppose the ongoing massacre?

Ofer Cassif: We must use every tool of democratic and non-violent struggle, namely civil disobedience and disobedience. Our view in the Communist Party and Hadash has always been in favour of public and non-violent struggles, and we must exhaust every tool at our disposal.

The task assigned to us is to establish what the Italian Communist leader Antonio Gramsci [1] called a “historical bloc.” In our case, this means a union of various forces and elements that oppose the genocide and fascism that is rampant within Israel, even when there are disagreements amongst them on other issues.

Who do you see as partners in the historical bloc?

First of all, the forces that are already opposing the government’s crimes: we, the communists, the absolute majority of the Arab-Palestinian public in Israel, and the [military draft] refusal movements.

There are other groups like the religious left, which in my opinion represents Judaism as it should be — universal and advocating freedom, equality, and justice for all. Also, there is the Mizrahi Civic Collective, [2] which is one of my favourite organisations, because it represents one of the groups that is harmed by the existing regime and its policies — the Mizrahi Jews, those of Middle Eastern and North African descent.

It is impossible to separate the exploitative and oppressive socio-economic policies from the continuation of the occupation and its ramifications. Therefore, the entire working class has been harmed by the occupation and the war of extermination.

The working class is being harmed economically, as more and more of the budget is being diverted to settlements and the army at the expense of the periphery and the disadvantaged classes. But it is also being harmed by the persistence of hostility between Palestinians and Israelis. This hostility prevents the exploited people of both nations from uniting against the exploiters.

Marx and Lenin supported the principle of self-determination because they understood that ongoing national conflicts exacerbate mutual hostility between nations, which separates the disadvantaged classes and serves their exploiters — the ruling classes.

How can we succeed in the fight against war?

Many believe that there is no chance of change coming from within Israeli society and that only international pressure will help. I disagree with this statement. It is clear that international pressure on Israel is necessary. But I do not accept the claim that Israeli society is lost and that there is nothing to fight for within it.

Those who claim this base their view on the assumption that Israeli society is a monolith. But as a Marxist, I see every society as a whole composed of contradictions. In the current Israeli reality, one of the main contradictions is between the followers of theocratic-fascism who are involved in the genocide in Gaza and their opponents on the other side. Our historical role is to sharpen this contradiction whilst struggling alongside the opponents of the murderous forces.

To reverse the situation and eliminate the murderous hegemony in Israeli society, we must expand and intensify our struggle in the domestic arena. We must reach out to additional populations who are paying the price of war and recruit them to our side. We must work everywhere on the social periphery, even if at first they curse us.

A hundred years ago, there was a labour leader who said: “At first, they ignore you, then they despise you, then they hate you, and finally they erect monuments in your memory.” We must not give up; we must continue to fight and insist on reaching out to even the publics with whom we currently have difficulty communicating. We must not give up on reaching out to them.

But that is not enough. To stop the war of extermination, we also need international help. We must turn to international bodies and encourage them to impose sanctions, to the point of severing relations with Israel as long as the genocidal policy continues. It is essential to co-operate with progressive international forces that oppose the war of extermination. But co-operation with anti-semites and racists is strictly prohibited.

Is there not a contradiction between addressing the working class in Israel and calling for an international economic boycott and sanctions?

There is tension but not contradiction. In the struggle for India’s liberation, Mahatma Gandhi led a boycott of products from England, and at the same time he sent an apology to the English working class.

We operate in a reality full of tensions and contradictions, and it is not always possible to resolve those tensions. Sanctions and boycotts against Israel may be harmful in the short term, but they serve the interests of the Israeli public in the long term. My support for sanctions against Israel is not based on anti-Israelism.

Beyond the fact that boycotting a country that commits genocide is the correct action in and of itself, it is also in Israel’s interest to prevent further bloodshed. It is worth paying a small price in the short term to avoid a very heavy price in the long term.

How has Israeli society changed since 7 October 2023?

The change is very rapid and very profound. Although Israel has never been a true democracy — and certainly not a liberal one, but rather an ethnocracy in which Jewish supremacy is institutionalised — since the 1967 occupation, it has become a real dictatorship, and since the Hamas massacre, a fascist tyranny.

Since 7 October, the Kahanist [3] government has been exploiting the terrible and criminal massacre committed by Hamas to implement the genocidal plan that Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich [4] presented back in 2017.

Two days before the massacre, on 5 October 2023, I attended an international left conference in Mexico. I spoke there about the judicial coup d’état in Israel. I explained that the coup d’état is one of the two legs of Smotrich’s “decision plan.” The other leg is the occupation of Gaza and the ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank.

On 9 October, I warned that the Israeli government wanted an explosion, a wave of violence that would serve as an excuse to fulfil Smotrich’s murderous plan, after the mass protest had stopped the coup d’état. For this statement, I was suspended from the Knesset for 45 days.

What I tried to say then, and I say again now, is that the coup d’état is not the goal; it is a means to eliminate pockets of opposition in Israeli society and to realise the “decision plan.” Since 7 October, this plan has been implemented through genocide in Gaza, ethnic cleansing in the West Bank, and rampant fascism within Israel.

Is the government in Israel fascist?

Unequivocally, the answer is yes. I say this with full responsibility, not only as a political slogan but also as someone who has studied fascism academically and taught courses on it at the university.

There is a fascist regime in Israel.

Now, of course, some will argue: “But elections are being held in Israel!” We must remember that at least half of the residents between the river and the sea [5] do not participate in the elections. There can be no half democracy, just as there can be no half pregnancy. Millions of people are living under Israeli rule without basic rights.

Since the establishment of the current government, and especially since 7 October, there has been a clear consolidation of fascist values. In the discourse promoted by the government, the supreme value is the nation, not the individual. The nation is the supreme value in the fascist view. In today’s Israel, this is a supreme value in whose name it is worth sacrificing not only millions of Palestinians but also hundreds of hostages and soldiers.

The knowing sacrifice of hostages to death through torture and the sacrifice of the soldiers as cannon fodder is no coincidence. This is not just a whim of Netanyahu in order to remain in power. This is a view that sees the individual as inferior in terms of values ​​compared to the nation as a collective. Such nationalism of “blood and soil” has never been more prominent in Israel.

Another characteristic of fascism is militarism. Mussolini called the regime he desired “the regime of the trenches,” after the trenches of World War I. Israeli society has always been militaristic but not to the level it is today. Soldiers are presented today as saints and sacrifice in war as a supreme value.

In Israel today, a militaristic death cult is stronger than ever. In recent months, the government has been openly treating war as a value in itself. It is customary to talk about the government’s messianism, but what is truly dangerous is the pairing of messianism and militarism.

Finally, one of the fundamental things in fascism is the personality cult of the leader, who is presented as someone who embodies the state and the nation, and who is himself the law. Therefore, the very act of putting the leader on trial is an internal contradiction in the discourse, because the leader is the law. We see this now in the right’s attitude to the Netanyahu trial.

The nation as a supreme value, militarism, and the cult of personality are three fundamental components of fascism that exist in the Israeli regime today. It is clear that there are differences between it and the fascism of a century ago because the historical circumstances are different.

In the classic fascism of the last century, the main enemy was Marxism. Today, the inflated enemy is different — ​​progress, the “woke,” and the minorities. But this should not prevent us from making a comparison and talking about contemporary fascism.

How has the parliamentary arena changed in the last two years?

We have never had it easy in the Knesset. Jurist Michael Sfard defined us as “a chronic minority.” But there is no doubt that the situation today is more difficult. The Knesset is blocked from working. The Knesset has been taken over by a hostile criminal organisation that does not allow work.

This takes the form of not only silencing, slander, insults and lies but also breaking all the rules of the game. Those who run the plenary sessions and committee meetings — not all of them and not all the time, but most of them most of the time — do not allow those who criticise the government to have their say.

There are words that are forbidden to mention, and whoever says them is immediately thrown out. The ethics committee serves as a censor, and its first victims are Hadash MKs [members of Knesset], but not just us. Unfortunately, apart from us, there are very few who issue substantive criticism.

When we raise substantive criticism, we are silenced in committees and in the plenary. In the constitution committee, this is especially noticeable. It’s not only me; several others are not allowed to open their mouths either. They silence us and throw us out every time we voice harsh criticism.

Basic things that were accepted until recently are simply not respected any more. For example, it used to be accepted in the Knesset not to hold votes on Muslim holidays. This is not a statutory obligation, but it was customary even during the Netanyahu governments. Today, this is no longer respected.

More serious is the persecution of MKs. I personally have been suspended for a total of 288 days in the last two years — almost half of the term! I was suspended mainly for things I said and will continue to say. I will not remain silent and will continue to speak out against the genocide in Gaza.

Ayman Odeh and Aida Touma-Suleiman, also Hadash MKs, were also suspended. The only two attempts to remove sitting Knesset members were made against me and Ayman, even though it was against the law and the legal advisers of the Knesset and the government opposed it. The legal adviser to the government warned that the removal attempt is a slippery slope and opens the way to the removal of anyone the regime does not like.

I left the icing on the cake for the end of the list. First — the screaming. Certain MKs simply do not allow the debate to continue when someone says something they do not like. The speaker of the Knesset and most of his deputies do not stop this gagging but rather allow it, contrary to the instructions of the Knesset legal adviser.

And second — the violence. Complaints that I submitted to the ethics committee against violence by MKs were rejected. The speaker of the Knesset and all the ministers, except one, refused to condemn the attempted lynching of Ayman and me in Ness Ziona. [6] This is all part of the fascism that dominates the streets and in parliament.

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The interview was conducted by Assaf Talgam, editor of Zo Haderekh (The Way), the Hebrew-language newspaper of the Communist Party of Israel.