Question 1. In Korea, debates on how to control transnational financial capital is just beginning. Not only activists, but main-stream press are very interested in the ATTAC movement, in terms of capital control campaign. So, firstly, please explain the background of its launch.
From a conjunctural viewpoint, ATTAC was set up as an answer to the succession of the 1997-1998 financial crises. This is why the taming speculative capital transactions and taxing them became straightaway an important issue. In December 1998, the influential French monthly paper “Le Monde Diplomatique” proposed the creation of ATTAC in its editorial. The spontaneous mass response from readers was very positive and surprising. Thus, after a unitary process —which brought together editorial committees, trade union federations, associations or NGOs and some key figures— ATTAC was founded in June 1998.
From a more general viewpoint, the creation of ATTAC responded to a largely felt aspiration to no longer accept passively the “dictatorship of the financial markets”; bring back social matters at the centre of political concerns and choices; to appropriate political questions through new forms of citizen participation. This is why the action program of ATTAC never limited itself to the taxation of speculative capital, and that our movement adopted the slogan “the world is not a merchandise”. It is also why a stream of individual membership (a thousand per month!) followed ATTAC’s formation. We now have a membership of around 26,000.
Question 2. Some activists and intellectuals point out the changes of ATTAC movement. They think that ATTAC has been changed since its launch, from “opposition to the financial market dictatorship” to”introduction of Tobin tax”. I mean, the perspective of ATTAC has been narrowed. What’s your opinion on these critics?
I do not think that this criticism has any basis. I say so because, on the one hand, ATTAC has always regarded the defense of the Tobin tax as a specific element of a larger struggle against the dictatorship of financial markets. And on the other hand, also because the areas of struggle of the ATTAC movement broadened further as months went by -against fiscal havens or IMF structural adjustment programs and for the cancellation of third world debt; against the creation of pension funds in France and for the defense of public services; against the use of genetically modified organisms in agriculture or the patenting of life forms. ATTAC therefore opposes the dictatorship of the market on a growing number of fields: pension funds, food production, life forms, culture...
Let us finally note that ATTAC has systematically linked its fight to that of other networks opposing neoliberal globalization, that were formed facing the IMF, the World Bank and WTO. We can even say that today, ATTAC is one of the main organizations which, on the international level, works consciously for, and on a daily basis, the convergence of all these struggles. By the way, it is in this spirit that ATTAC is sending a delegation to Seoul, at the occasion of the ASEM People’s Forum, to strengthen solidarity ties between our movements in Western Europe and East Asia.
These last months, there were new developments and successes with the campaign for the Tobin tax. It has caught the interest of more and more parliamentarians from different countries. It was therefore “strongly visible”, which is of course a good thing. But this does not mean that the other areas of struggle have been abandoned, much on the contrary.
Question 3. In general, Tobin tax is considered not only as a first step for massive opposition to financial market dictatorship but also as an effective measure to regulate transnational speculative capital. Do you think that Tobin tax can really regulate the speculation? If so, what kind of Tobin tax do you insist?
Since the beginning, the fight for the Tobin tax was put in the framework of certain perspectives: democratic (reaffirmation of the primacy of the political facing market dictatorship), pedagogical and militant (updating on and critical study of the financial mechanisms of liberalism), social (taxation of capital), solidarity-based (use of revenue to reduce inequality, particularly between the North and the South), anti-speculative (limiting speculative capital transactions). In relation to this last objective, the principle is simple: a low-level tax is not hard on normal transactions like productive investments. On the contrary, it can weigh heavily on speculative transactions that demand a big number of operations within short periods. This said, a too low tax will not have a dissuasive effect on speculative transactions between currencies, even if it brings already in a significant amount of revenue.
It seems to us that a rate of 0.1% would discourage speculative operations on a middle scale, because they would become too costly. But not necessarily big-scale operations. For the moment we propose a rate of 0.1% and we are envisaging the possibility of a variable tax: if a big speculative operation starts, the tax rate would automatically increase to contribute to stop it.
Question 4. . In terms of strategy, ATTAC seems to focus on the ’lobby strategy’ to the congress man of the North (especially MEP). That is, ATTAC is lobbying in the congress for the introduction of Tobin tax. We are worred about this lobby-centered strategy. Because we think, it makes a gap bigger between the ATTAC and mass struggle against neoliberal globalzation. What’s your opinion on this point?
I think there is some real misunderstanding here. In the span of two years, the activities of ATTAC went in many directions. As you note, towards parliamentarians and governments, most especially in the framework of the campaign for the Tobin tax. In exactly the same way as the trade union movement fights to have a social legislation favorable to workers adopted, we wanted that the taxation of speculative capital transactions be inscribed in the law. There is no way of obtaining this without undertaking an action supported by lawmakers, based of course on the relation of forces in the society.
During the same period, Attac did not distance itself from the popular struggle against neo-liberal globalization. We organized the international conference in Saint-Denis in June 1999, just a year after Attac’s constitution. We actively participate, from one conference to another, from one demonstration to another, in the convergence of movements of resistance. We had sent a delegation to Seattle and mobilized tens of thousands of persons in France, against the ambitions of the WTO. We were numerous in the immense gathering in Millau, in the south of France, for the court case of activists from the Peasant Confederation. We bring forward citizen’s information and action, popular education, social movements, unitary mobilizations.
At the same time, we had to get organized, work collectively on numerous dossiers, start to publish, welcome thousands of members, create local committees (there are now 170 of them), adjust the running of the organizations to a more rapid growth than expected, hold our first summer university. All these in less than two and a half years - do not forget that we are still a very young organization.
Question 5. We think, Tobin tax campaign is likely to be active in the developed countries which have some developed-financial market. As you know, in the third world countries, social movements are focusing on the debt cancellation campaign and anti-SAPs campaign imposed by the IMF/WB. Under this condition, even if the Tobin tax can be introduced in the North, people in the Third world are still suffering from the debt-chains. What’s the meaning of Tobin tax campaign to the Third world people? Are there no possibilities that the campaign is of benefit only to the people in the North?
There are financial centers in the south, but it is true that most of the revenue from the Tobin tax will be levied in the North. However, in our opinion, the money collected should be used, before anything else, to reduce inequalities between the North and the South, to help people from the third world. We wish that the movements from the South and from the North would work out together a common proposition, specifying what type o Tobin tax we want: what rate, where to apply it, who collects it and who benefits from it (only the populations from the south or also the poor from the North, and in which proportion?)... We do not want a tax which will be collected by the IMF and will reinforce the powers of this institution!
The Scientific council of Attac prepared a discussion paper which poses the questions to which we need to answer collectively in order to present a concrete plan of taxation of speculative capital transactions. Likewise, so it will be effective, the fight for the Tobin tax should be linked to other fields of struggle, such as the closing down of tax havens or the cancellation of the third world debt. Certain economists and politicians can have a very different conception from us on this issue. There are many possible types of the Tobin tax. But it is in the perspective of solidarity that we are acting.
Question 6. As far as I know, various groups from trade union, unemployed group to NGOs are participating in the ATTAC. What makes these various groups gather? Are there any differences in terms of viewpoints among them? If so, please introduce different views in ATTAC. And how to arrange the different views?
One of the characteristics of Attac in France is is capacity to bring together a wide range of movements. It brings especially together workers’ trade unions and the unemployed movement, the Peasant Confederation, feministe organizations and associations for international solidarity, development aid and the defense of human rights. The trade union federations that are active in Attac are members of different confederations and national centers : they can be in competition in companies. This does not hinder them to cooperate within Attac. This is also true for the main movements of the unemployed.
For a significant part of the 26 000 individual members, membership in Attac is their first militant engagement or main sector of activity. Others are members of different parties (from the Left, with few exceptions). It is important to understand that ATTAC is not a cartel of political currents; quite a number of its members do not identify themselves with a particular political party. But, let us simply say that militants in Attac range from those who are radically against neo-liberalism to those radically anti-capitalist. In this context, different points of view co-exist, without giving birth to organized currents.
What allows ATTAC to maintain unity? A unitary tradition forged in France since some 15 years now and which enabled numerous organizations to learn how to act together, despite divergences. The feeling that this unity is precious and that it has to be preserved. The fact that ATTAC intervenes on an issue that brings people together : to consolidate a frontline of resistance facing neo-liberal offensives, the dictatorship of the market, the ambitions of the WTO. The dynamism also of mobilizations in france and in the world offer a framework of action that is widely unitary within which the radicality of social and citizen movements finds expression. For as long as this dynamism is maintained, the unitary dynamics of ATTAC should be able to last.
ATTAC in France is a new and original form of organization, which we ourselves have to understand. It is neither a trade union nor a party. We often call it a movement of popular education turned towards action. Or a movement of political education. ATTAC is meeting point between social demands (with the founding organizations of ATTAC: trade unions, etc.) and citizen demands (with the flow of individual memberships). In this sense, it is at the same time a social and citizen movement.
ATTAC is an organization in the making. Its influence is now felt in the institutional sphere. Numerous parliamentarians and municipalities identify themselves with ATTAC. But it is clear that the functioning and the orientation of the association should continue to be determined by the founding organizations and members organized in local committees. We have to make sure that the center of gravity of ATTAC remains militant. To my mind, the future of ATTAC greatly depends on the quality of the links between its group members (trade unions, associations, etc.) and its individual members. We have begun to adapt the ways of functioning of the association, but there probably remains much to be invented in this area.
I imagine that one day or another, we will encounter grave difficulties. The contrary would be surprising. We therefore have to overcome these. But since its founding in 1998, its dynamism has always been maintained. So far so good.
Question 7. As you know, anti-globalization campaign has been developed very rapidly on national as well as international level. Please tell us your evaluation on this trends and ATTAC’s plan to make it more active.
We think that in the span of two years significant progress has been accomplished. A cumulative process has started : from one conference to another, we are building step by step a common framework within which one finds the important militant campaigns (from the debt issue to the regional free trade agreements) and regions of the world. Social movements play a more important role in these initiatives than in the past, as the big NGOs (more or less lobbyists) tended to define the agenda of international meetings.
We still need to progress. Certain networks ask to be reinforced (for example on the question of international financial institutions) and certain regions in the world are still not much integrated (we hope that the mobilizations in Prague will provide the occasion to integrate better Eastern Europe. We need to start giving these convergences a capacity of coordination, of initiative -permanent but supple. This was the question posed last June, in the Geneva conference. Western Europe uses a supple structure of cooperation. How can this be done in the international level? We hope that the World Social Forum which will be held in Porto Alegre, Brazil at the end of January 2001 will be the occasion to evaluate collectively, to take another step forward in the affirmation of this new form of internationalism of social and citizen movements.
Question 8. Lastly, please give us your message to Korean workers and people.
During the strikes in South Korea at the time when the country’s entry into the OCDE was accepted, a very strong feeling of solidarity was expressed in France. The French workers directly identified with the demands put forward by the Korean workers. There had been other solidarity movements with Korea in the past. Under this form, it was the first time.
A common struggle has been taken on, from France to South Korea, all the way through the huge Eurasian continent. It is this common fight that we want to strengthen today. And this all the more that we know that the Korean people find themselves today in a turning point in its history, while the question of national unity is again posed, at the same time as the recognition of democratic and social rights. We want to affirm here our solidarity towards your struggle.